23:51 <@waawaamilk> Mjollnir`: wanna talk about import?
23:51 < Mjollnir`> yeah we could do that now
23:52 <@waawaamilk> :)
23:53 <@waawaamilk> ok..
23:54 <@waawaamilk> something that occured to me just now is that we're gonna have two export formats, but what's a good candidate for second import format?
23:54 < Mjollnir`> true
23:54 < Mjollnir`> please not ims
23:54 < Mjollnir`> hmm that's harder
23:54 <@waawaamilk> moodle backup?
23:55 <@waawaamilk> (if that makes sense?)
23:55 < Mjollnir`> no
23:55 < Mjollnir`> surely that doesn't make sense
23:55 <@waawaamilk> heh
23:56 < Mjollnir`> http://ioc.xtec.cat/eportfoli/view/view.php?id=5
23:56 < Mjollnir`> my slides in catalan!
23:56 < Mjollnir`> <-- distractely
23:56 < Mjollnir`> -l
23:57  * waawaamilk grrs at urxvt
23:57 <@waawaamilk> heh, nice one
23:58 <@waawaamilk> views are vistas, eh
23:59 < Mjollnir`> NOT the windws sort
23:59 < Mjollnir`> but tyeah
23:59 < Mjollnir`> oh and also
23:59 < Mjollnir`> majara in spanish is something very funny
23:59 <@waawaamilk> majara?
23:59 < Mjollnir`> and someone told me they were a 'maharian'
00:00 < Mjollnir`> which is a good way to say 'person who is into mahara' i think
00:00 <@waawaamilk> like moodler?
00:00 < Mjollnir`> yes exactly
00:00 <@waawaamilk> heh
00:00 <@waawaamilk> evonne keeps saying maharara
00:00 < Mjollnir`> i like maharian
00:00 < Mjollnir`> anyway
00:00 <@waawaamilk> doesn't quite roll off the tounge
00:00 < Mjollnir`> majara would be the way to spell mahara in spanish
00:00 < Mjollnir`> and it means like
00:00 < Mjollnir`> a really crazy persobn
00:00 < Mjollnir`> like
00:00 < Mjollnir`> one of those jackass guys
00:01 <@waawaamilk> one maharaian, multiple maharaian
00:01 <@waawaamilk> heh, oarsum
00:01 < Mjollnir`> jumping off cliffs for fun and stufff
00:01 <@waawaamilk> feeding themselves to crocs
00:01 <@waawaamilk> anyhoo
00:01 <@waawaamilk> offtopic
00:01 <@waawaamilk> is there a second format?
00:01 < Mjollnir`> right
00:01 <@waawaamilk> or do we just roll with one and make guesses?
00:02 < Mjollnir`> sorry, still trying to reply to email and stuff
00:02 < Mjollnir`> so
00:02 <@waawaamilk> the export api might give clues
00:02 < Mjollnir`> i do'nt think moiodle backup makes sense
00:02 < Mjollnir`> yeah i think we stick with one for now
00:02 < Mjollnir`> it can always change
00:02 < Mjollnir`> and evolve
00:03 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:03 <@waawaamilk> so, what do we want to support?
00:03 < Mjollnir`> LEAP for now
00:03 <@waawaamilk> people can upload a file, and a new account is created with all that data?
00:04 < Mjollnir`> later, maybe
00:04 < Mjollnir`> oh
00:04 < Mjollnir`> sorry
00:04 <@waawaamilk> heh, my bad
00:04 < Mjollnir`> um
00:04 <@waawaamilk> people can upload a file, and that data is merged with existing account?
00:04 < Mjollnir`> i don't think we can do new account now
00:04 < Mjollnir`> oh maybe we can
00:04 <@waawaamilk> admins can upload file to create new account?
00:04 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:04 <@waawaamilk> I would have thought that would have been easier
00:04 <@waawaamilk> mass upload files to create new accounts?
00:04 < Mjollnir`> but they might want to create the account first
00:04 < Mjollnir`> yeah i guess
00:05 <@waawaamilk> the problem with existing accounts is that you have conflicts between existing data
00:05 < Mjollnir`> i'm worried about money
00:05 <@waawaamilk> heh
00:05 < Mjollnir`> i mean
00:05 <@waawaamilk> the simplest thing might have to do
00:05 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:05 < Mjollnir`> just throwing that out there ...
00:05 <@waawaamilk> fair point
00:05 < Mjollnir`> haven't heard back from uni g or richard
00:05 <@waawaamilk> richard says some tec funding might come in at the end of this week
00:06 <@waawaamilk> apparently they might be timing it with the election so the media don't catch on or something
00:06 < Mjollnir`> for this ?
00:06 < Mjollnir`> eh ?
00:06 < Mjollnir`> media ?>
00:06 <@waawaamilk> no idea what it's for, it might be the big massey project
00:06 <@waawaamilk> richard was conspircy-theorising I think
00:06 < Mjollnir`> weird
00:07 < Mjollnir`> ok
00:07 < Mjollnir`> anyway
00:07 < Mjollnir`> so
00:07 < Mjollnir`> one thing that got raised a lot was the 'holding area' thing
00:07 < Mjollnir`> and that solves the conflict problem as well
00:07 < Mjollnir`> because the more i think about it the more i think we cannot do completely non interactive imports
00:07 <@waawaamilk> so there is an expectation that people are able to merge data?
00:07 < Mjollnir`> not even just that but like
00:08 < Mjollnir`> make decisiosn about where to send stuff
00:08 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:08 < Mjollnir`> at the meeting,
00:08 <@waawaamilk> do you imagine the process of importing being syncronous or asyncronous?
00:08 < Mjollnir`> all the previous partners agreed on that
00:09 < Mjollnir`> i don't understand what you're asking
00:09 <@waawaamilk> e.g., does the holding area stick around while users use the site and they can come back and make decisions later
00:09 < Mjollnir`> right
00:09 < Mjollnir`> yes i think so
00:09 < Mjollnir`> what do you think ?
00:09 <@waawaamilk> I think so too
00:10 <@waawaamilk> I'm trying to think of a good model
00:10 <@waawaamilk> but maybe something like
00:10 <@waawaamilk> user uploads file
00:10 <@waawaamilk> user presented with screen showing contents of file
00:10 <@waawaamilk> at any point user can browse away from, and come back to, this screen
00:10 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:10 <@waawaamilk> they can pick bits out of it and import it as they choose
00:10 <@waawaamilk> or of course do the whole thing in one go
00:10 < Mjollnir`> but also i think maybe *stuff* from moodle should go there too
00:10 <@waawaamilk> true...
00:11 < Mjollnir`> which helps with the 'go away and come back again' thing
00:11 < Mjollnir`> :>
00:11 <@waawaamilk> that makes good sense
00:11 < Mjollnir`> um
00:11 <@waawaamilk> stuff can come in via mnet to import holding area
00:11 < Mjollnir`> i also think , maybe eventually,
00:11 < Mjollnir`> we should support the user being able to do something like 'always do this and stop asking' for particular decisions
00:11 < Mjollnir`> maybe
00:11 < Mjollnir`> also
00:11 < Mjollnir`> someone suggested in rome
00:11 <@waawaamilk> yeah potentially.. depends on the decisions
00:11 < Mjollnir`> creating views
00:12 < Mjollnir`> but not granting access
00:12 < Mjollnir`> for the imported stuff
00:12 < Mjollnir`> (moodle import)
00:12 < Mjollnir`> i am not convinved about this btw
00:12 <@waawaamilk> so like
00:12 <@waawaamilk> if I send a blog over
00:12 <@waawaamilk> a view is created with the blog in it?
00:13 < Mjollnir`> something like that
00:13 <@waawaamilk> I'm not convinced either
00:13 < Mjollnir`> ok lets shelve that for now
00:13 <@waawaamilk> right
00:13 <@waawaamilk> I like the idea of this holding area that you can go away from/come back to though
00:13 < Mjollnir`> cool
00:13 < Mjollnir`> i think that's the best way
00:14 <@waawaamilk> you have to deal with user uploading two files I guess
00:14 <@waawaamilk> profile information is tricksy
00:14 <@waawaamilk> there is some data that will only ever fit in one place in mahara
00:14 <@waawaamilk> and some that can happily be duplicated
00:14 < Mjollnir`> that doesn't really come out of leap though
00:14 <@waawaamilk> e.g. first name vs. files
00:14 < Mjollnir`> i don't think
00:14 <@waawaamilk> right
00:14 < Mjollnir`> i don't think leap is really meant to do profiley stuff
00:14 <@waawaamilk> true
00:15  * waawaamilk was thinking of a pure mahara import/export thing
00:15 < Mjollnir`> which is what worried me about hte account creation model
00:15 <@waawaamilk> go on?
00:15 < Mjollnir`> well
00:15 < Mjollnir`> if you're using a leap import to create accounts
00:16 < Mjollnir`> what do you use for all the user information
00:16 < Mjollnir`> that sort of thing
00:16 <@waawaamilk> true
00:16 <@waawaamilk> I think the holding area plus your point about leap not doing profile stuff gets around my initial concern about conflicts
00:16 <@waawaamilk> although potentially other import formats might want to import profiley stuff
00:16 <@waawaamilk> maybe we shelve that idea until later?
00:17 <@waawaamilk> next iteration of import api
00:17 < Mjollnir`> yep
00:17 < Mjollnir`> happy
00:17 <@waawaamilk> ok, so users have to exist
00:17 <@waawaamilk> they upload import file, data goes to holding area, all is good
00:17 <@waawaamilk> admins can upload dataz for users too?
00:18 < Mjollnir`> yes
00:18 < Mjollnir`> i think so too
00:18 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:18 < Mjollnir`> because admin might do
00:18 < Mjollnir`> create account, upload file
00:18 <@waawaamilk> actually, to term that problem above in mahara's terms, we won't support importing to artefacts that is_singular() returns true for
00:18 <@waawaamilk> (until later)
00:18 < Mjollnir`> um
00:19 < Mjollnir`> we might if there isn't one already ?
00:19 <@waawaamilk> well leap won't have any
00:19 <@waawaamilk> (will it?)
00:19 <@waawaamilk> so we could just ignore it for now
00:19 < Mjollnir`> um
00:19  * Mjollnir` tries to think of is_singular
00:19 < Mjollnir`> begin tangent
00:19 < Mjollnir`> my slides for the mahara dev workshop might be a good starting point for some dev documentation btw
00:19 <@waawaamilk> firstname, lastname... stuff you can only have one of ever
00:20 < Mjollnir`> i can send them to you
00:20 < Mjollnir`> end tangent
00:20 <@waawaamilk> cool
00:20 < Mjollnir`> yeah i know what it is i was just wondering if anything other than profile information set it
00:20  * waawaamilk looks at list of artefact types
00:20 < Mjollnir`> some resume stuff
00:20 < Mjollnir`> cover letter and interests
00:21 < Mjollnir`> and contact information
00:21 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:21 <@waawaamilk> damnit which file has the list
00:21 <@waawaamilk> s/file/dbtable/
00:21 <@waawaamilk> artefact_installed_type
00:21 < Mjollnir`> oh i just grepped
00:22 < Mjollnir`> and then looked through some of them
00:22 <@waawaamilk> true, resume stuff is singular (at the moment) and is in leap
00:22 <@waawaamilk> ok so there could be 'conflicts' there
00:22 <@waawaamilk> although it's not like we would do conflict resolution anyways
00:22 <@waawaamilk> it would be a case of choose this one or don't
00:23 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:23 < Mjollnir`> keep existing or add new
00:23 < Mjollnir`> like when you install new debian conf files
00:23 <@waawaamilk> and no option to drop to a shell to examine the situation :>
00:23 < Mjollnir`> the holding area can do this though because it can see
00:24 < Mjollnir`> a) is_singular and b) something exists or not
00:24 <@waawaamilk> yeah
00:24 <@waawaamilk> so what the holding area could do is
00:24 <@waawaamilk> display what's in the import
00:24 <@waawaamilk> highlight it if it's different from what the account has
00:24 < Mjollnir`> yes
00:25 <@waawaamilk> question: can users upload more than one import file
00:25 <@waawaamilk> thus having more than one 'contestant' for an is_singular slot?
00:25 < Mjollnir`> at a time ?
00:25 <@waawaamilk> not necessarily at a time
00:25 <@waawaamilk> upload, examine holding area, upload again
00:25 < Mjollnir`> they can do it againa nd again and resole the conflict eachtime
00:25 < Mjollnir`> sorry, still typing problem
00:25 < Mjollnir`> oh
00:25 < Mjollnir`> i see
00:25 < Mjollnir`> hm
00:25 < Mjollnir`> i think there are many holding areas
00:25 <@waawaamilk> does that merge the new import info into one uber holding area?
00:25 < Mjollnir`> in that case
00:25 < Mjollnir`> and
00:25 < Mjollnir`> no
00:26 <@waawaamilk> right
00:26 < Mjollnir`> holdingarea/date/
00:26 <@waawaamilk> hmm
00:26 <@waawaamilk> the holding area mechanisms are going to be complex
00:26 < Mjollnir`> why ?
00:26 < Mjollnir`> I think this is what it should do
00:26 < Mjollnir`> :
00:27 < Mjollnir`> unpack the file and parse it
00:27 < Mjollnir`> present the user with a list of content
00:27 < Mjollnir`> for each item,
00:27 < Mjollnir`> "guess" where they might want to send it (as well as tell them all the options that are supported)
00:27 < Mjollnir`> tell them when there's a conflict
00:27 < Mjollnir`> end for each
00:28 <@waawaamilk> is the file unpacked and parsed every time the user looks at the page?
00:28 < Mjollnir`> no
00:28 <@waawaamilk> do the files count towards the user's quota?
00:28 < Mjollnir`> quota is tricky
00:28 < Mjollnir`> i think no, until they want to strt importing
00:29 <@waawaamilk> a user might be a bit thick, and upload a 100M portfolio a every time they want to import
00:29 <@waawaamilk> maybe there's a separate quota for that
00:29 <@waawaamilk> though that could be later work
00:29 < Mjollnir`> could be actually
00:29 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:29 <@waawaamilk> ok so uploading import file -> new holding area
00:29 <@waawaamilk> when does the holding area die?
00:30 <@waawaamilk> user chooses, all data imported... after time period?
00:30 < Mjollnir`> when there's no data left in a particular import, import goes
00:30 < Mjollnir`> maybe we could message them after $time to say "it will be deleleted if you don'tdeal with it"!
00:30 < Mjollnir`> fuck
00:30 < Mjollnir`> sorry, my typing is really bad with sore wrist
00:30 <@waawaamilk> :(
00:31 <@waawaamilk> it's not affecting legibility
00:31 < Mjollnir`> no, it's just frustrating :)
00:31 <@waawaamilk> back to holding area thing
00:31 < Mjollnir`> yep
00:31 <@waawaamilk> it sounds to me like you were describing some kind of wizard
00:31 < Mjollnir`> hm
00:32 < Mjollnir`> i don't like the word wizard
00:32 <@waawaamilk> multistep process with helping paperclip?
00:32 <@waawaamilk> I don't think a wizard is necessarily appropriate here
00:32 < Mjollnir`> NO PAPERCLIP
00:32 < Mjollnir`> yeah i don't either
00:32 < Mjollnir`> but
00:32 <@waawaamilk> it might be in conjunction with some other ui
00:32 < Mjollnir`> i have an image in my head
00:32 < Mjollnir`> like
00:32 < Mjollnir`> a page with two columns
00:33 < Mjollnir`> table with two columns
00:33 < Mjollnir`> left cell has info about item
00:33 < Mjollnir`> rightt cell has actions
00:33 < Mjollnir`> discard , send to 'files/folder/' etc
00:33 < Mjollnir`> if there's a conflict, it prints warning there
00:33 < Mjollnir`> next row
00:33 < Mjollnir`> etc
00:33 <@waawaamilk> I had an image of something like the files section we have currently, which is close enough
00:33 <@waawaamilk> the point is, it's not a wizard
00:34 < Mjollnir`> no
00:34 <@waawaamilk> it's a list of everything in it with actions
00:34 < Mjollnir`> i didn't really have a wizard in my head
00:34 < Mjollnir`> yes
00:34 < Mjollnir`> quite
00:34 <@waawaamilk> though it needs to be easy to mass do things
00:34 < Mjollnir`> maybe there coud be filter controls
00:34 < Mjollnir`> like
00:34 < Mjollnir`> show me everything you think is a file
00:34 < Mjollnir`> check all
00:34 <@waawaamilk> I was just going to say :D
00:34 < Mjollnir`> send to 'folder'
00:35 <@waawaamilk> it sounds like we both have the same image
00:35 < Mjollnir`> yep
00:35 <@waawaamilk> I think it should be mocked up
00:35 < Mjollnir`> sweet
00:35 < Mjollnir`> yes good idea
00:35 < Mjollnir`> who should do that? us or a russel/evonne type person
00:35 <@waawaamilk> a usability type
00:35 <@waawaamilk> I think that means a developer in our case
00:35 < Mjollnir`> is that russell ?
00:35 < Mjollnir`> ogh
00:35 <@waawaamilk> nope
00:35 < Mjollnir`> oh
00:35 < Mjollnir`> i thought russel's job was to do UI design
00:35 < Mjollnir`> isn't he like
00:36 < Mjollnir`> JN was telling me he was
00:36 < Mjollnir`> um
00:36 <@waawaamilk> maybe...
00:36 < Mjollnir`> i can 't remember the title
00:36 < Mjollnir`> like
00:36 <@waawaamilk> he knows how to do flash
00:36 <@waawaamilk> he's a ba who manages the g&d team as far as I know :)
00:36 < Mjollnir`> information architect or something but when i queried it JN convinced me it was about UI design
00:36 <@waawaamilk> I think we need the domain knowledge we have to make something to begin with
00:37 <@waawaamilk> you and I know what we're on about but I don't think we could communicate that clearly to him without some image to start from
00:37 < Mjollnir`> ok
00:37 < Mjollnir`> i can do something
00:37 <@waawaamilk> :)
00:37 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:37 <@waawaamilk> portfolios could be huge
00:37 < Mjollnir`> ?
00:37 <@waawaamilk> it must be easy to filter through it all
00:38 < Mjollnir`> yes
00:38 < Mjollnir`> agree
00:38 <@waawaamilk> what about page sizes?
00:38 <@waawaamilk> does it paginate?
00:38 < Mjollnir`> yeah i think it would have to
00:38 <@waawaamilk> if it does, do you want it to not paginate when showing 'all' of something?
00:38 < Mjollnir`> option
00:38 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:38 <@waawaamilk> or maybe it's like gmail's spam thing
00:38 < Mjollnir`> ?
00:38 <@waawaamilk> showing 50 files, you can check all of them or click the link to "select all files in spam"
00:38 <@waawaamilk> then do an action
00:39 < Mjollnir`> oh
00:39 < Mjollnir`> i see
00:39 <@waawaamilk> there is quite a bit of usability work to go into this holding area
00:39  * waawaamilk flags as something to remember
00:40 <@waawaamilk> is that basically the entire process?
00:40 < Mjollnir`> yep
00:40 < Mjollnir`> i think so
00:40 < Mjollnir`> what about code ?
00:40 <@waawaamilk> ?
00:40 < Mjollnir`> i mean do you want to talk about code too ?
00:40 <@waawaamilk> oh
00:40 <@waawaamilk> yeah could do
00:40  * waawaamilk looks sadly at resume bugs piling up from glasgow
00:41 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:41 < Mjollnir`> they're good though
00:41 <@waawaamilk> together, they all scream "rewrite!!" (at least to me)
00:41 <@waawaamilk> anyways
00:42 <@waawaamilk> so I imagine these pages sit under import
00:42 <@waawaamilk> import/
00:42 <@waawaamilk> import/holdingarea.php for example
00:42 <@waawaamilk> import/leap/lib.php as discussed in the last meeting...
00:42 < Mjollnir`> hm
00:43 < Mjollnir`> holding area for all import formats >
00:43 < Mjollnir`> yeah i guess so
00:43 <@waawaamilk> yeah
00:43 <@waawaamilk> you have to convert from $format to something neutral
00:43 <@waawaamilk> for all formats
00:43 <@waawaamilk> or
00:43 <@waawaamilk> no
00:43 <@waawaamilk> the api has to be consistent to ask questions about an import
00:43 < Mjollnir`> hm
00:44 < Mjollnir`> hmmm
00:44 <@waawaamilk> LeapImporter->gimmeNextArtefact
00:44 <@waawaamilk> (LeapImporter extends Importer or something)
00:44  * Mjollnir` humms
00:44 < Mjollnir`> thinking
00:45 < Mjollnir`> i think
00:45 < Mjollnir`> that the importer needs to be able to unpack stuff and send it to the holding area
00:45 < Mjollnir`> or
00:45 < Mjollnir`> register it with the holding area
00:45 < Mjollnir`> like:
00:45 < Mjollnir`> file arrives of format leap
00:45 < Mjollnir`> gets given to the leap importer to unpack
00:45 <@waawaamilk> gah
00:45 < Mjollnir`> leap importer unpacks and
00:45 <@waawaamilk> internet died
00:45 < Mjollnir`> ?
00:45 < Mjollnir`> oh
00:46 < Mjollnir`> i thought it was in response to me :>
00:46 <@waawaamilk> heh
00:46 <@waawaamilk> I was going to say what you were just explaining
00:46 < Mjollnir`> so
00:46 < Mjollnir`> ok
00:46 <@waawaamilk> the unpack is a one time process
00:46 < Mjollnir`> we're agreeing
00:46 <@waawaamilk> :)
00:46 < Mjollnir`> by the time stuff gets to holding area
00:46 < Mjollnir`> and it might be very simple,
00:46 < Mjollnir`> for example in the case of a file from moodle
00:46 < Mjollnir`> it's in a consistent format
00:47 <@waawaamilk> ?
00:47 < Mjollnir`> with a pointer back to the importer for more data maybe
00:47 <@waawaamilk> right
00:47 <@waawaamilk> hmmmmmmmmm
00:47 <@waawaamilk> it's interesting
00:47 < Mjollnir`> so that most of the time, the holding area is responsible for the UI and display stuff
00:47 <@waawaamilk> do you uncompress the files?
00:47 <@waawaamilk> and store them on disk somewhere?
00:47 <@waawaamilk> or go back to the compressed import and uncompress to get the files when needed?
00:48 < Mjollnir`> i think uncompress
00:48 <@waawaamilk> does that mean we can discard the actual import file once the initial upload -> holding area thing is done?
00:49 < Mjollnir`> yes
00:49 <@waawaamilk> holding areas are different per format aren't they
00:49 < Mjollnir`> no that's what i mean
00:49 < Mjollnir`> i don't think they should be
00:49 <@waawaamilk> presumably not all import formats are xml + files though?
00:50 < Mjollnir`> no but the importer can register enough data for the holding area to know about
00:50 < Mjollnir`> eg
00:50 < Mjollnir`> title, potential artefact types
00:50 < Mjollnir`> for each item
00:50 <@waawaamilk> that all goes into the holding area db tables?
00:50 < Mjollnir`> yeah
00:50 <@waawaamilk> right
00:50 < Mjollnir`> with an importid since we have multiple holding areas
00:50 < Mjollnir`> i am not sure
00:50 < Mjollnir`> i mean
00:50 < Mjollnir`> i'm leaning towards that
00:50 < Mjollnir`> or maybe
00:50 < Mjollnir`> !
00:50 < Mjollnir`> better idea
00:51 < Mjollnir`> holding area class
00:51 < Mjollnir`> formats CAN subclass
00:51 < Mjollnir`> but 90% of the time won't
00:51 < Mjollnir`> say for a render item method
00:51 < Mjollnir`> the main class just prints title & suggested artefact types / targets whatever
00:51 < Mjollnir`> but if a particular format wants to do something special it can
00:52 < Mjollnir`> although there also needs to be some interaction with the artefact plugins here too
00:52 < Mjollnir`> like,
00:52 < Mjollnir`> for each item
00:52 <@waawaamilk> do you see the format needing control over something like that?
00:52 < Mjollnir`> the holding area knows it might be file or blog post (say a .html file)
00:52 < Mjollnir`> file and blog post have different options about "target"
00:52  * waawaamilk is thinking more about how to show preview icons for images :)
00:53 < Mjollnir`> right so that ties in with what i just said about artefacts ratehr than formats
00:53 < Mjollnir`> maybe
00:53 <@waawaamilk> yep
00:53 <@waawaamilk> so...
00:53 <@waawaamilk> if something "could" be an X or a Y
00:53 <@waawaamilk> we could ask X and Y to return info about that transformation
00:54 < Mjollnir`> yes
00:54 <@waawaamilk> X could be image, and return "<preview> (image of size 20K)
00:54 <@waawaamilk> "
00:54 <@waawaamilk> (maybe they return html to be smacked into the UI)
00:54 < Mjollnir`> hm
00:54 < Mjollnir`> hmm
00:54 < Mjollnir`> i'm not sure about that
00:54 < Mjollnir`> it could be too big
00:54 < Mjollnir`> that's why i just said title
00:55 <@waawaamilk> well blogs might just return title
00:55 <@waawaamilk> images might return an iconified version
00:57 < Mjollnir`> back
00:57 < Mjollnir`> yeah, ok
00:57 < Mjollnir`> but
00:57 < Mjollnir`> that's right column
00:57 < Mjollnir`> what do you put in the left column ?
00:57 < Mjollnir`> information about the source
00:57 <@waawaamilk> yeah
00:57 <@waawaamilk> that has to be format neutral
00:57 < Mjollnir`> which is the responsibility of the format
00:58 <@waawaamilk> oh right maybe not
00:58 < Mjollnir`> yeah sot hat's what I was talking about holding area + maybe subclass
00:58 <@waawaamilk> hm
00:58 < Mjollnir`> although it's per ITEM that you might want to override
00:58 < Mjollnir`> maybe
00:58 < Mjollnir`> hm
00:59 < Mjollnir`> no wait
00:59 < Mjollnir`> really i think that
00:59 < Mjollnir`> when you unpack, you insert into holding tables
00:59 < Mjollnir`> some sort o f tit.e, and a list of artefact types
00:59 < Mjollnir`> wait
00:59 < Mjollnir`> the artefact types need to be polled there too
00:59 < Mjollnir`> gaA
00:59 <@waawaamilk> maybe this left column doesn't make sense?
01:00 < Mjollnir`> but even apart from a ui design,
01:00 < Mjollnir`> there still needs to be SOMETHING in the tables
01:00 < Mjollnir`> to send to the artefacts
01:00 < Mjollnir`> ok
01:00 < Mjollnir`> i need to draw pictures
01:00 < Mjollnir`> 5 minute break
01:00 <@waawaamilk> :)
01:00 < Mjollnir`> okie ?
01:00 <@waawaamilk> yep
01:00 < Mjollnir`> choice bro
01:05 < Mjollnir`> ok so
01:05 < Mjollnir`> i have thought about this and her'es what i think
01:05 < Mjollnir`> file arrives
01:05 < Mjollnir`> it's given to importer to unpack
01:06 < Mjollnir`> for each item, the importer asks what artefact types it can be (we know this from artefact/file/leap::get_entry_types or whatever)
01:06 < Mjollnir`> and inserts a record into the holding tables
01:06 < Mjollnir`> eg:
01:07 < Mjollnir`> http://paste.dollyfish.net.nz/6ca60a
01:08 < Mjollnir`> what i was confused about was how we got the rest of the data once it had been put into a neutral format for the holding area
01:08 < Mjollnir`> either we use the extid field or have an extra table
01:08 < Mjollnir`> in the case of LEAP i would use extid firld and just go back to the xml file
01:08 < Mjollnir`> since each entry has an id
01:08 < Mjollnir`> in the xml file
01:09 <@waawaamilk> make extid text
01:09 < Mjollnir`> yeah
01:09 <@waawaamilk> then maybe you don't need the ability for extra tables
01:09 < Mjollnir`> of course
01:09 < Mjollnir`> well you might if there's no unique idenfier in the source file
01:09 < Mjollnir`> in leap there is
01:09 < Mjollnir`> so we can use extid
01:09 < Mjollnir`> but the iomport formats are true plugins
01:09 < Mjollnir`> so they can have their own tables inf they need
01:09 <@waawaamilk> even if there isn't, you could enforce that the import format convert from extid to a thing
01:10 <@waawaamilk> and make the format deal with it
01:10 <@waawaamilk> yeah I guess
01:10 <@waawaamilk> there will be an api method that, given extid, makes format return a record?
01:10 < Mjollnir`> a record ?
01:10 <@waawaamilk> e.g. a leap item
01:11 < Mjollnir`> why do you need an api method for that
01:11 <@waawaamilk> what I mean is
01:11 < Mjollnir`> it's internal
01:11 <@waawaamilk> well I dunno
01:11 <@waawaamilk> why do you need to refer to the original data?
01:11 < Mjollnir`> um
01:11 < Mjollnir`> for ... when you actually do the import
01:11 <@waawaamilk> oh right
01:11 < Mjollnir`> you ened to give it to the artefact/type/leap place
01:11 < Mjollnir`> :)
01:12 < Mjollnir`> it's sort of two step:
01:12 <@waawaamilk> so that place needs the data
01:12 <@waawaamilk> thus api method?
01:12 <@waawaamilk> meh I dunno
01:12 < Mjollnir`> 1. dumb it down to display to user in consistent way
01:12 < Mjollnir`> 2. import it into mahara
01:12 < Mjollnir`> but I think 2. is internal to the format and the artefact's implementations of the format
01:12 < Mjollnir`> there needs to be an 'ok go' method for import
01:12 <@waawaamilk> right
01:13 <@waawaamilk> I'm getting tired
01:13 < Mjollnir`> just to let you know i'm expecting someone to turn up at 12:30
01:13 < Mjollnir`> heh
01:13 <@waawaamilk> perhaps we call it a night
01:13 <@waawaamilk> /day
01:13 < Mjollnir`> yeah  i th ink we've made good progress
01:13 <@waawaamilk> I think we need to revisit both import and export again though
01:13 < Mjollnir`> sure